Council to Consider Resolution Opposing Power Plant

The Redondo Beach City Council will consider a resolution opposing AES Southland’s plans to repower its , the councilmen decided Tuesday night in a 4-1 vote.

With Councilman Steve Diels opposing, the rest of the Council directed city staff to prepare a resolution opposing a new plant in time for its May 1 regular meeting.

The current plant must be retired by 2020 to be in compliance with state regulations banning the use of once-through cooling. Plants with once-through cooling use ocean water to cool the superheated steam that turns the turbines, generating electricity.

• Watch: Redondo Beach City Council Meeting - April 10

Proponents of AES' plan argue that the new plant—which, like the current one, will run on natural gas—will be smaller, run cleaner and provide a backup source of electricity when it can't be produced through "greener" methods, such as using solar or wind energy; opponents, on the other hand, say the new plant will run more often, spew more unhealthy particulate matter and continue to depress property values in the area.

Local groups Building a Better Redondo and No Power Plant are preparing a voter initiative that, if passed, will rezone the AES property for a large park with up to 40 percent commercial/institutional use if certain parameters for institutional use are met.

Mayor Mike Gin and several of the other councilmen also indicated during the meeting that they would be amenable to passing the resolution, though Councilman Steve Aspel also said that he would only do so if local anti-power plant groups pulled their proposed initiative.

In addition to asking staff to craft the resolution opposing the plant, the Council also voted unanimously to have City Attorney Mike Webb explore the legal pros and cons of different zoning options for the site, as well as to have city staff draft a work plan of what it would take to place a new zoning plan for the site on the March 2013 ballot or a subsequent special election ballot.

Earlier in the meeting, Webb told the councilmen that there shouldn’t be legal consequences to adopting a resolution and opposing the plant during the permitting process.

"Is there liability for taking this position?" Webb told Councilman Bill Brand, a staunch opponent of the plant. "My opinion is no."

For a more detailed recap of the power plant discussion, read the live blog from Tuesday night below. Entries are in chronological order.

6:37 p.m.: While last week's meeting needed an overflow room, attendance this week is much lighter. The Council chambers aren't even full. I don't see any signs being waved around, either.

6:40 p.m.: Now it's time for City Attorney Mike Webb's report.

6:43 p.m.: Webb says he has already provided the councilmen with long memo, but here's the specific non-privileged answer to whether the Council can take a position on the repowering.

"Well, specifically the blunt answer is there aren't any reasonable legal limitations on taking the position" whether to take a position on AES' plans, Webb says. "Should you act as an intervener, the downside is you're not able to recover your cost."

The bright side? The city can cross-examine witnesses and gets a bigger stake in the process. "It becomes a much more effective means, should you choose to take a position."

6:44 p.m.: "You're unique in that you're the local elected representatives and you would be speaking on behalf of the citizens of Redondo Beach," Webb tells the Council.

6:46 p.m.: Brand: What are the costs of becoming an intervener?

Webb: You have to take a position first. Once you take a position, you can direct staff to come up with a budget on "what it would take to act as an intervener."

Cities like San Francisco has its own in-house experts, while Carlsbad had to seek outside counsel.

Webb says staff will look at costs per phase, as well as what kind of expertise is needed.

6:47 p.m.: Brand: Were San Francisco and Chula Vista interveners?

Webb: San Francisco, yes. Chula Vista, no. Carlsbad—belatedly.

6:51 p.m.: Webb: "I feel more strongly than most likely" that "in terms of specific taking a position & appearing in the various state agencies ... you won't have liability. It's clear that those processes are set up to invite local agencies to do that."

Aspel asks if this would turn into an issue like Hermosa Beach and MacPherson Oil. He doesn't want to get sued.

"If on one end, you did zoning that eliminated the plant 99 years from now, it'd be fine," but if you did it tomorrow, it would be a taking, Webb says. The key is figuring out where the middle ground is.

Aspel asks if the city can be held liable for a land-use initiative.

Webb: "The city is held to the same standard whether a zoning change is made by the Council ... or whether it's done by initiative." Changes made strictly by voter initiative don't have some of the same protections as those made by Council, he says. Webb reminds the councilmen that zoning laws can still be overruled if the plant is deemed necessary.

6:53 p.m.: Webb says he can discuss some things more specifically once the Council takes a position.

Aust: "I really can't take a position until I kind of know what the cost is."

Webb: "It costs you nothing to be against it." He can't, however, give what it would cost to be an intervener. Other cities said $100,000-$200,000 initially.

6:55 p.m.: "It costs you nothing to punch a cop, but the consequences cost a lot!" says Aust.

6:56 p.m.: Webb says it's not reasonably likely for the city to get sued if they're an intervener or take a position against the plant. "It's not a liability cost," Webb says. Liability concerns come "if and when you decide to start changing the zoning."

6:58 p.m.: Diels thinks there are costs to taking a position. He also said he learned the city doesn't have much authority over whether AES Redondo Beach repowers. "That concerns me."

"I just don't think it's a good idea to punch them in the nose and then ask them for help," Diels says.

"To depower and find alternative uses for that site, AES does need help from the city. So if the community wants an alternative use it would be important then to work with the property owner."

7 p.m.: "If they had an economic alternative, they may be able to consider that alternative. But there's none," Diels says. He adds that it cost the city almost $600,000 when it tried to add park space.

"It's very expensive to fight," he says. "Personally, I would rather collaborate than have combat... I think there's time before the City Council has to make that decision."

7:02 p.m.: "If your priority is open space, just consider this for a minute: ...what use would actually allow that open space and have the least amount of impact?" Diels asks. He throws out the possibility that the power plant could be part of that. But, if people just want the plant gone, the trade-off could be density, car traffic, etc. "I think before we make a decision about whether to support or oppose it might be good to engage this one opportunity we have to actually work with, engage with, the property owner.

"If we squander this opportunity now we squander it forever."

7:04 p.m.: "There's a regional air quality solution at play," and the power plant may be part of that solution, Diels says. If the community opposes AES Redondo Beach, it might seem like they're opposing clean air.

He wants to make a commitment "now to be a party to the proceedings for the long term," but work with AES right now.

Would removing AES help all the property values in Redondo, or would the city be devoting a lot of resources to a few? he asks. "There's a lot in this mix."

7:06 p.m.: "We're all people, we're all adults," Diels says. "The least worst alternative for the community."

"But to fight ... not to negotiate, I believe virtually guarantees the power plant gets rebuilt with little or no input from the city," he says.

Brand: "What's best for the city is for there to no longer be a power plant on our waterfront." He calls this a "golden opportunity" to eliminate the power plant, as well as potentially eliminating the power corridor.

7:08 p.m.: "Whatever zoning is agreed to with or without a power plant there, is going to go before the public in Redondo Beach," Brand says. He claims that AES Southland President Eric Pendergraft said last November a new plant would not be built if the community didn't want it.

Brand reminds people of 2004 staff report that recommended phasing out the power plant.

7:12 p.m.: "AES will always be negotiating with us, no matter what happens," Brand says. "The impacts (of) the power plant are huge."

He talks about the potential increase in particulate pollution. "It's a big impact." Additionally, he says all property values are depressed by up to 40 percent.

"It really, really, really degrades the whole business climate in our harbor," he says. "Even a smaller power plant is going to hold back Redondo Beach from what it could truly be."

7:13 p.m.: Webb interrupts to tell Brand and the rest of the council that their remarks really belong on the next agenda item.

"Is there liability for taking this position?" Webb asks. "My opinion is no."

7:14 p.m.: Time for written requests! John McGanty is up first, but then he realizes that his comment was really for the next agenda item.

7:16 p.m.: "I wanted to thank you so much for setting up that event last week ... and I thought it was really ironic that we started out this evening with all these Earth Day references," says the next speaker.

Mayor Mike Gin interrupts her to get her back on track about speaking about the legalities.

"Punching a policeman is illegal!" the woman says. "To compare using your voice in a democratic process ... to breaking the law and punching a policeman is just very, very confusing for me."

7:21 p.m.: John Parsons gets up to the podium. "What we say as elected officials ... can have ramifications, and so if you do something during one phase of a process ... I'm worrying and wondering if that has impacts on future actions that the council might take, such as zoning," he says.

He brings up Councilman Steve Aspel's involvement with a planning-related issue—Aspel had to recuse himself when it came before the council because he took a position on it.

"If you're holding district meetings or writing editorials ... is that going to make it so that you can't vote on something when it comes time for a zoning issue?" he asks.

7:22 p.m.: "Those are very thoughtful questions, and I think that former Council member Parsons would have to know that the discussion of those would not be here, they would be in the confidential portions of the memo," says Webb.

7:25 p.m.: Now it's time for K2—whether the Council should oppose AES' plans to repower.

"This is the City Council's opportunity to have that dialogue that was originally scheduled for last week," City Manager Bill Workman says. The Council can support, oppose, remain neutral or "punt to another meeting" the issue.

Gin says, "We needed to do our due diligence," which is why it took so long. "I think we're very, very pleased with the information (Edison and the agencies) were able to provide" last week, he says.

He calls the issue "a sensitive one" because AES is a local business and a private property owner.

7:28 p.m.: Gin emphasizes the need for "a lot of due diligence."

"The timing has been good, because ... we potentially may or may not take a position," he says. "We may submit some information ... but I think this process has been good, everybody's input has been very engaging."

He notes that he's presented a proposal in the blue folder.

"What alternative nonindustrial uses would be appropriate to have there?" he asks. AES could leave a shell of an industrial site there for years, even if it's not operating.

"We talk about dreams of and opportunities for future uses for this site ... that has been missing from this conversation for a long time."

Gin also believes that collaboration with AES is a good thing. He notes that Pendergraft has said he's willing to work with the community and the city on potential alternative uses.

Gin: "We need to have an open public process" to look for potential and beneficial uses for the site if a power plant is not there.

7:30 p.m.: Gin wants the Harbor Commission to hold public workshops. Because these will involve zoning changes, the feedback would go to the Planning Commission and subsequently the council.

"The Council rezoned that property industrial a number of years ago," Gin says. "(It did it because) in our zoning code, park use is allowed under industrial zoning. It is a permitted use."

7:31 p.m.: "How would you feel if your own house were rezoned from under you by your neighbors?" Gin asks. A taking would subject the city to "huge liabilities."

7:32 p.m.: Now it's time for Councilman Matt Kilroy. He recognizes that AES is a private property owner; however, land in Redondo is second only to the awesome citizens who live in the city.

7:34 p.m.: Kilroy says that often the landowner will come to the city and ask for a zoning change. He calls land use and zoning a "basic city obligation." "I believe a repowered AES facility would provide certain benefits to the city," such as property taxes and utility users tax, he says.

"But I don't think this is the best use for the city."

"I don't believe we're trying to give AES a punch in the eye" by opposing the plant; instead, "it's a push, it's a nudge to help them negotiate an alternative use for the site," Kilroy says.

He moves that staff place on the next agenda a resolution opposing the repowering of the plant. Brand seconds it.

7:35 p.m.: "AES is going to be just fine," says Brand. "Zoning gets changed all the time. That's what the staff recommended eight years ago (to) change the zoning of AES...

"This isn't really rocket science. It's how it's been working all over."

7:38 p.m.: "I don't think the majority of the residents of Redondo Beach want a new power plant," Brand says.

7:39 p.m.: Brand is starting to ramble just a little bit. He notes that the California Energy Commission will be interested in hearing from Hermosa Beach residents, too.

7:43 p.m.: "Having a power plant here is not something that really is best for our community," Brand says.

Nevertheless, he wonders whether the Harbor Commission should be holding the workshops instead of the Planning Commission, partially because Harbor Commission Chairman Harry Munns said there was .

"This is like a rocket ship on a launching pad," Brand says. He says AES is "ready to launch" and get its permits approved. If the city doesn't work fast, there will be a power plant, he adds.

"I think we need to send a message that we don't want a power plant here."

7:45 p.m.: Aust "absolutely, 100 percent" wants to do what the majority of Redondo Beach residents want, but he doesn't think he knows what the majority wants to do. One hundred and seven seats is not a majority, but a cross-section, he says.

"I don't really want another power plant there," he says, adding that there could be "far better use" for the land there.

7:49 p.m.: "I don't want them to rebuild," Aust says, but he wants to know the financial implications are.

"Park gets you absolutely no money. Will it be like Hermosa? Will they come back to say it's a wrongful taking and sue us?"

Also, Aust wonders who is going to pay for the land to be used as a park. Aust claims that Brand has said that AES will give the city the land.

"I never said that," Brand says.

"There's a lot more to this whole thing than 'I'd like to see it gone; I'd like to see my views improve,'" Aust says. He compares the land to Central Park.

7:51 p.m.: Aust asks about Carlsbad. He also mentions that the California Independent System Operators (CAISO) says there will still be a need for power generation. Aust wants to prove a point that the CEC can override local zoning.

"There's a lot more to this than 'Why doesn't the Council take a position?'" Aust says.

7:52 p.m.: Aspel: "That was an awful abrupt ending."

Aust: "I didn't say I was done; I just said I'd let you talk!"

7:54 p.m.: Councilman Steve Aspel says he has no problem opposing a power plant, but he has concerns with the initiative. He says the whole "Heart of the City" plan for thousands of condos would have resulted in the destruction of the power plant.

"I don't really support the initiative process," Aspel says. "You elect your representatives ... and you don't like 'em, you don't vote 'em back in."

7:58 p.m.: "We're tying future generations up by having an initiative now," Aspel says.

He asks Brand if a vote from the people in the form of an initiative is more powerful than a Council vote.

"For once, I wanted (Jim Light) here to ask him something," Aspel grumbles.

"I will not vote to oppose the power plant if it comes back ... if there is still a citizen-led initiative in Building a Better Redondo's website," he says. "I think an initiative on the next ballot in March would be very divisive for the community ... I can't go with a voter initiative. I have zero problem with a Harbor Commission/Planning Commission/City Council & every citizen of the city showing up" with their ideas.

"I don't want it written down in stone of what can and can't be built," he said.

7:59 p.m.: Aspel says there will be tons of different opinions on what to do with the land the power plant is on if the plant is not repowered.

And then he starts talking about how he was eating M&Ms during the Torrance Boulevard zoning.

8:02 p.m.: What are the costs of having a park on the AES property?

"(Gin is) probably the most popular mayor and the most knowledgeable mayor that we've ever had or known in a long time," Aspel says.

He says he would support staff coming up with a resolution to oppose the repowering of the plant.

"My vision of the future of that area isn't the same as Building a Better Redondo."

8:04 p.m.: Aspel calls Pendergraft to the podium to ask him a few questions. In the meantime, he continues to confuse the words "ordinance" and "resolution."

"I've got a sneaking suspicion that I'm the swing vote here," Aspel says. "If there's a citizen-led initiative, I will not vote to oppose the plant when it comes back... The city is perfectly capable of getting re-zoning or citizens' input nowadays."

8:06 p.m.: Aspel thinks the plant's land can be rezoned without an initiative.

Kilroy: "My intent is not to try to have a separate path so to speak from what the mayor is suggesting" (e.g. sitting down with AES). "I just don't think that formally opposing the power plant, which we all seem to feel that way anyway, negates that or somehow taints that process in some way going forward."

8:07 p.m.: "I appreciate Council member Aspel's position with regards to the initiative," however, Kilroy doesn't want it to influence his decision making. "If you refuse to take action because that's out there, then that initiative now has had an effect on you, and I don't know that you really want it to have that much impact on you," Kilroy tells Aspel.

8:09 p.m.: Kilroy wants to be collaborative with AES.

Aust: "I totally would support a resolution that says, 'We're totally against the power plant' and put it on the ballot in the next election if that would help the city in being viewed by the Energy Commission."

8:14 p.m.: Aust says his problem is mostly with what he called the defined 30 percent commercial and 70 percent park zoning in the initiative, as well as its restrictions on flat, grassy areas.

"It's not a park; it's a wasteland! It's what they had on the Esplanade hillside ... it's a weed patch!" he exclaims.

As a note, the proposed initiative calls for up to 40 percent commercial and institutional zoning if certain conditions are met.

Diels: "What I oppose is doing something that's ineffective or worst, doing something defective."

He says it's funny that he and Brand are often cast as opposites because they both believe if there's no action taken, there would be a power plant. They just have different ideas how to get there.

"Sacramento is very far away," Diels said. "To get any input up there, it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort just to get there just for a few minutes of time with your legislators."

He said the regional bodies don't take into account "NIMBY arguments."

8:17 p.m.: Diels says one of the weaknesses of last week's presentation was that it was about current—not future—power needs. "It's not been determined if lack of power is at issue here. We don't know. Do we need the power or don't we?" he asks.

Also, how does this issue impact North Redondo?

"Who's impacted by the land value? You're talking about Hermosa Beach on one side of the power plant." Diels notes that one Hermosa Beach resident said he would not contribute to getting rid of the power plant, yet he would enjoy increased property values. How does North Redondo benefit from removing the power plant? That part of the city is two-thirds of the vote.

8:21 p.m.: "Maybe it's not rocket science, but it sure is complicated ... Rocket science at least is physics—it's math that you can predict," Diels says. "You know, dealing with people is a lot more challenging."

If the initiative were to pass, it wouldn't provide enough economic value to AES, Diels said. It's not a bad deal if the power is needed in 20 years.

Don't do something without understanding the consequences, he cautions.

8:21 p.m.: "(Brand and I are) looking out for what we think are the best interests of the city," Diels says.

Diels, "And finally, I would suggest that we do become an intervener with the CEC" once AES applies for the permit.

8:22 p.m.: "We really don't have the luxury of an advisory vote or a planning session that leads to nothing," Brand says.

8:25 p.m.: The entire council is tormenting Webb by calling this an "ordinance," not a "resolution."

8:27 p.m.: "I'm not afraid of ending up in court, folks," Brand says.

8:28 p.m.: Gin tells Brand that the Harbor Commission has experience with harbor issues, and says that he hopes that Brand isn't just unhappy with the Harbor Commission taking the lead because of its chairman.

8:31 p.m.: Brand says the little water bottles provided for councilmen are the "most wasteful thing ever." Gin notes that Brand usually brings a stainless steel water bottle.

8:36 p.m.: Workman says the CEC will ultimately decide whether a power plant should be there.

"Serving as an intervener is really important. It give you a seat at the table, but it comes with a cost in two ways." It costs a lot of money, and the mitigation side is very important, he says. The intervener process gives you a "legitimate seat at the table"—but you need to have your facts and data straight.

Also, regardless of what zoning comes out of it, it has to be put to a vote of the people.

Additionally, a consultant who has been working for free to figure out how to finance a harbor-area park can come back May 1 with a report.

"While this first motion is to oppose or not oppose the potential application ... there would be a whole series of things that would follow that we would bring back for your consideration," he said.

8:38 p.m.: Gin to Diels: If we don't take a position, what role would we have as an intervener?

Diels: Being an intervener gives the city a seat at the table. "I have not come out for or against the power plant in any way. I'm making the point that the actions we take could set for outcomes that we don't expect." He thinks it's too early to take a position.

8:39 p.m.: Improving the waterfront is good for all of Redondo Beach, because it improves the businesses, which is good for the city's general fund, Brand says.

8:41 p.m.: Once again, Aust says he doesn't think there will "ever" be a new power plant built on that site.

8:44 p.m.: Public comment time! It's Jim Montgomery from Torrance. He supports the City Council "wholeheartedly" if it decides to oppose the plant.

He wants the area rezoned for non-industrial/commercial uses. "I don't trust (AES)," he says, then cites the 2002 Los Angeles Times story about AES' possible fraud in the power crisis at the beginning of the millennium.

8:48 p.m.: It's Adele Whitman's turn. She tells the Council she got a "market research" survey on the telephone that she believes was from AES. Whitman says she doesn't believe that the survey was unbiased. "It was really... it was not a real survey," she said.

She lives in North Redondo. Today she saw the "enormous" plume from the stacks—and she lives downwind of the plant. "I'm even a mile away from the power plant. It would be a big benefit to me if I could have opened up my window today and felt the fresh ... breeze" without thinking about the plant.

She urges the Council to pass a strongly worded resolution against the power plant.

8:51 p.m.: The next speaker tells the councilmen it's their "obligation" to oppose the plant.

"I don't think he has the emotions that all of us have," she says. "He's a businessman."

She's worried about the "constant drone" of the plant running if it's rebuilt. Additionally, she wants the other local councils to oppose the plant.

"I think we need to file the resolution and talk to AES at the same time ... Time is of the essence."

She asks Aspel to vote for what he believes, not against another group just to spite them.

8:55 p.m.: Don Szerlip: "Mr. Brand does not speak for me... but he does seem to speak for the group that is interested in passing the resolution outside the normal process for the zoning in that area."

Szerlip also thinks AES needs a "financial incentive" to retire the plant. "In its current form, I don't support the motion on the floor," he said, adding that due diligence needs to be done on the costs.

8:56 p.m.: The next speaker has lived in the city for all of his 28 years. He says that AES should retire the plant, and the city should take a stand against repowering the plant.

8:59 p.m.: "I'm really excited that you've elevated the discussion to this level," says Jessica Hall.

She says she shares Diels' concerns with the regional perspective on energy. "I don't want to see the way we talk about this power plant become a thing where we then put the burden of energy on the other communities."

If Germany can phase out their nuclear power plants in favor of solar and wind energy, then Redondo Beach can phase out its gas-fired plant.

9:02 p.m.: Though he lives in North Redondo, Roger Light says he sees the plant as blight. He says it should be a "no brainer" for the city to oppose a newplant.

"And, yes, the zoning is a brainer. That's a tough one."

9:05 p.m.: Delia Vechi, a resident of District 2, brings up eminent domain. "I think you need to decide: you like the power plant or you don't like it," she says.

She suggests the city calls for an architectural competition to figure out what the city will do with the land. A jury could decide whose design wins.

9:08 p.m.: The next speaker says she knows what it feels like to not have a choice: "I'm in Mr. Aust's district, and he was the only one on the ballot in the last election, so I left it blank." Ouch.

"I can't breathe here anymore. I live in North Redondo. I don't care about my property taxes ... The one thing that I am starting to realize is that everything has changed," including her beliefs in the system and the American Dream, she says.

9:11 p.m.: Despite Gin's mention that she's over her time, the speaker ignores him until she finishes her statement.

The next speaker, Jane Alfonso: "I think there's a lack of trust."

"I'm sure you're not on the take, but it's hard to understand why you don't have a vision," she says.

9:14 p.m.: Leslie Page, who works in the harbor, gets up to speak. "First and foremost, I don't think we should make a decision on what commission this goes to based on the personality," she says.

"Guys, the harbor is blighted. We're trying to find someone that wants to spend money on a decrepit, blighted harbor."

She chastises the councilmen for taking pot shots at one another.

9:15 p.m.: The next speaker is a newcomer to Redondo Beach. She's a big fan of collaboration, but she also thinks they need to start with a position.

9:20 p.m.: Garry Thompson of Redondo Beach says, "The majority of you—if not all of you—agree that you'd like to see the power plant taken down." He says this position is freeing and empowering and will help make things happen more quickly.

The next speaker says she's "very invested in this community." She's an avid cyclist who likes the bike path but not the pollution the plant emits. "I would probably come here more if (the plant) wasn't there."

9:22 p.m.: "I feel like I'm returning to the scene of a crime—a crime that was committed five years ago," says Tom Conroy from District 1. He and Bill Brand get into a little spat, and Conroy describes a plan that was squashed five years ago. The plan called for 200 homes, a canal, a park and amenities.

"The first thing you do is you do not show your hand. This is poker, baby."

He suggests the Council doesn't tip its cards by asking staff for the resolution.

9:27 p.m.: As the speakers continue to argue the same points, I start wondering what time this will end and whether anyone has thought about putting ergonomic chairs in the audience.

9:29 p.m.: Hermosa Beach resident Richard Morris calls the area a "jewel" with "enormous potential." "I just want to really, really encourage you all to dream big," he said.

9:29 p.m.: Aspel asks for a two-minute recess for a bathroom break.

9:38 p.m.: And we're back in session! Assistant City Manager Pete Grant says he might have to start charging us reporters for power because of our plugged-in laptops.

9:40 p.m.: More complaints about the particulate plume from the next speaker. Also, he notes that the "steam release valve popped" this morning.

Carol Thompson of Redondo Beach is next. "I am overwhelmed by this meeting and there's so much that I can comment on," she says.

9:47 p.m.: Pendergraft is up now. He wanted to rebut an earlier accusation that AES was involved in the power crisis at the turn of the millennium.

"Two of our corporate values are acting with integrity and honoring our commitments, and I have always adhered to those values," he said, noting that every power company was investigated after the crisis. "We were thoroughly investigated ... through the entire investigation, we were not found (liable)."

"We were one of the few entities who were thoroughly investigated and not required to refund any money."

He says he wants to collaborate to develop a plan for the site "that we can be proud of and that can be economically viable." The plan that they're considering will free up land and give them the financing to remediate the site and tear down the old plant without using taxpayer dollars.

He says the details of the new plant aren't determined yet.

"I am not certain that all the voices that we've heard to date necessarily represent the majority," Pendergraft says. He adds that he thinks that "now is not the appropriate time to take a position to oppose our project."

9:49 p.m.: Mark Hansen says that the King Harbor boaters have not taken an official position on the plant; however, they believe that a lot of good things could be done with the extra 30 acres, such as boat storage.

9:51 p.m.: Chris Cagle says it's premature to pass a resolution opposing the plant.

9:57 p.m.: And we're back to Brand. He notes that there had been an advisory vote previously for a park, but the Council at that time did not support it.

"All I'm hearing up here is just more fear, fear, fear, fear, fear," he said. "We don't know where the money's going to come from. You don't start with the money ... you have to set the vision, and that's what we're supposed to be doing up here."

"They want to invest $500 million because they want to build a power plant!" he exclaims.

Diels: "The hardest things to do sometimes are the scariest things to do."

9:58 p.m.: Diels calls simply passing a resolution a "cheap and easy way out." He says that collaboration is the best way to go about it because AES "holds all the cards."

9:59 p.m.: The next speaker wonders if AES' collaboration would include a solution that doesn't have a power plant. The Council says that Pendergraft has indeed said so.

10:02 p.m.: This North Redondo resident says she came down after watching the meeting on television and hearing Diels' comment about how the plant doesn't seem to affect people in the northern part of the city. She's not in it for the property values; she's in it for the city itself.

"It would be really nice to see the 'Welcome to Redondo' (coming down Anita/190th Street) without the stacks," she says.

10:02 p.m.: "I think we've had some really great comments tonight," Gin says.

10:05 p.m.: Gin says though the focus has been primarily for or against the power plant, people haven't been discussing the alternatives.

"I think Eric (Pendergraft) revealed his cards a little bit last week when he mentioned Huntington Beach and Alamitos are larger, probably more important plants than ours," he says.

Any action taken tonight isn't necessarily a supportive action—what really matters is the resolution that staff drafts for the Council to approve, Gin says.

Still, he's concerned that he hasn't seen all the details of the proposed plant.

"What really matters, should this pass, is what the resolution says."

10:09 p.m.: Aspel: "Don't confuse lack of passion for fear or for not giving a damn about what happens over there."

"We have to make decisions now that somebody in 10 years ... to say, 'Boy those guys screwed up, they cost us $100 million,'" Aspel says, comparing the situation to Hermosa Beach and MacPherson Oil.

"There will be 1,000 suggestions, and 999 people will be pissed off because their suggestion wasn't taken," he says. He also reiterates that he won't oppose the power plant if the initiative is continued. "You don't get both things out of me."

10:11 p.m.: Brand thanks everyone for coming down and speaking. "I know enough to come out against a new power plant," he says, noting the presentation AES gave in November. "We need to set the tone. I think if we set the tone, we're going to be amazed at how much support we have and what we can accomplish...

"We're not eliminating options; we're just setting the tone."

10:14 p.m.: Aust, "See this is the best part of this job. Eric (Pendergraft) says, 'It's not 640 (megawatts) anymore'—it could be 20,000! ... I go with Councilman Aspel."

"You don't go into a car dealership and ask for a discount by punching the salesman in the nose!" Punching people in the nose appears to have become a theme tonight.

Aust says he's against the proposed initiative.

"Give us a weed patch and pack up and leave town! I mean, there's got to be a balance here," he says.

"This is a long process, and we've got a long way to go—and it's not going to be easy," he says.

10:16 p.m.: The Council votes to ask staff to craft a resolution opposing the power plant. Diels is the only opposing vote.

"We'll put in some of the concerns that have been voiced by members of Council," Webb says.

The Council will be able to edit the resolution once it's presented.

10:19 p.m.: Kilroy moves to accept Gin's proposal to have the Harbor Commission examine the issue.

John Parsons, who is currently the chairman of the Planning Commission, says he's concerned with the interpretation of what the proposal says the Harbor Commission should do—it's pretty much exactly what the Planning Commission will have to do. He says SEQA will have to get involved.

"This seems really rushed to me, and I'm really worried about what the outcome of that is," Parsons says.

10:25 p.m.: Aust says he agrees with Parsons, which is apparently not a common occurrence. He talks to Gin about the actual roles of the commissions—what if the Council doesn't agree?

"I think the time to do this is now, and it's very timely because we're facing a potential application by the property owner for a new power plant there," Gin says. "At the same time we've gotten feedback from them in a number of ways that they would like to collaborate" on other uses for the site.

Gin calls for Aaron Jones' opinion on the matter.

Workman: If we want this for the March election, we're going to have to do this at almost "light speed." "We can do it ... but knowing the election requirements and the SEQA requirements for noticing and doing the environmental review, we're pressed for time from this moment forward," Workman says.

Aust: "We're building a very elaborate structure for a 'What if'!"

10:30 p.m.: Gin: "Should these negotiations take an, uh, interesting turn..." Would AES withdraw its application?

"I don't think we should necessarily wait for a completion or for a decision," he says, adding that he thinks it'd be "prudent" for staff to develop a timeline for what the process would require.

Kilroy makes a new motion that the matter is referred to staff to get a work plan for a March election timeline and one for a special election. "Is it appropriate to include the chairmen of the two commissions?"

"It's a timeline to accomplish these recommendations" on alternative uses, Kilroy says.

"Vision and leadership cost money and take time," Aspel said.

10:31 p.m.: "I think we're asking for a nightmare on this thing," Aspel says.

10:32 p.m.: Aspel: "(The Planning Commission is) a speed hump on the way to the Council."

"I certainly think it's a good idea to put this off and get a timeline," Brand says. He thinks zoning is the solution. "I'll support it the way it is."

10:35 p.m.: Vechi is back. "Be people that decide, please, one and for all. This is my best message to all of you. Don't waste more time talking."

The motion passes unanimously.

10:38 p.m.: Brand makes the motion to explore zoning legal options. Webb says it may be a good idea, though Gin seems unsure.

"It's not in any way suggesting any type of part zoning," he says. "It's just giving greater detail on your options and what to be careful of."

Gin: What types?

Webb: That would fall under attorney-client privilege, so I'll send you a memo.

"I think it's reasonable but at the same time if our intention is to work collaboratively with the property owner, then what other purpose would this additional information" serve? Gin asks.

Webb says they may not need it, but it's a good thing to have.

10:39 p.m.: Aspel seconds Brand's motion. Parson gets up to comment.

10:41 p.m.: Parsons wonders what the ground rules will be for the Harbor and Planning commissions.

"It might make it really easy if Eric would threaten to sue" because then it would go to closed session and the Council could talk about it, Parsons says.

"We want to collaborate, John!" Pendergraft says

10:42 p.m.: Webb won't propose a zoning option—he will talk about the strengths and weaknesses of the different options, instead. Council will have to make the final decision.

Brand's motion passes unanimously, and this is the end of the live blog on the power plant. Thanks for reading!